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What if the FDA Started Regulating EHR?

Posted on March 20, 2014 I Written By

John Lynn is the Founder of the HealthcareScene.com blog network which currently consists of 15 blogs containing almost 6000 articles with John having written over 3000 of the articles himself. These EMR and Healthcare IT related articles have been viewed over 13 million times. John also manages Healthcare IT Central and Healthcare IT Today, the leading career Health IT job board and blog. John is co-founder of InfluentialNetworks.com and Physia.com. John is highly involved in social media, and in addition to his blogs can also be found on Twitter: @techguy and @ehrandhit and LinkedIn.

In the world of mobile health, we’ve often talked about what will happen if the FDA starts to regulate the various mobile health apps out there. In fact, the FDA has come out with some pretty detailed guidelines on what mobile health applications and devices need FDA clearance. To date, the FDA has stayed away from any regulation of EHR software.

On my ride to the airport after the Dell Healthcare Think Tank event, we had an interesting and engaging conversation about the FDA when it comes to EHR software. Some of the discussion was around whether the FDA would start regulating EHR software.

Shahid Shah suggested that it was extremely unlikely that the FDA would touch EHR software at least until meaningful use was complete and the current President was out of office. He rightfully argues that this administration has hung their hat on EHR and the FDA wasn’t going to step in and stop that program. Plus, Shahid suggested that ONC wouldn’t let the FDA do it either. Janet Marchibroda from the Bipartisan Policy Center was hopeful that Shahid was right, but wasn’t as confident of this analysis.

After hearing them discuss this, I asked them the question:

What would happen to the EHR Market if the FDA started regulating EHR?

Shahid quickly responded that the majority of EHR vendors would go out of business and only a small handful of companies would go through the FDA clearance process. Then, he suggested that this is exactly why the FDA won’t regulate EHR software. FDA regulation of EHR would wipe out the industry.

This is a really interesting question and discussion. The reality is that there are a lot of similarities between EHR software and medical devices. One could make a really good case for why the FDA should regulate it like medical devices. One could make a case for the benefit of some rigor in the development of EHR software. However, there’s no appetite for such a change. In fact, the only people I’ve seen calling for it are those who think that EHR is unusable and potentially harmful to patients. I’m not sure FDA regulation will make them more usable though.

Now, juxtaposition the above conversation with this post by William Hyman titled “A Medical Device Recall of an EHR-like Product” In this case, the FDA announced McKesson’s voluntary recall of it’s Anesthesia Care system. This software was tightly integrated with other FDA regulated medical devices. I wonder what this means for other EHR software that is starting to integrate with a plethora of FDA cleared medical devices and other non FDA cleared medical devices.

I’m personally with Shahid in that I don’t think the FDA is going to touch EHR software with a long pole. At least, not until after meaningful use. After meaningful use, I guess we’ll see what they decide to do.

KLAS Names Top EMR Vendors For Mid-Sized Practices

Posted on January 27, 2014 I Written By

Anne Zieger is veteran healthcare consultant and analyst with 20 years of industry experience. Zieger formerly served as editor-in-chief of FierceHealthcare.com and her commentaries have appeared in dozens of international business publications, including Forbes, Business Week and Information Week. She has also contributed content to hundreds of healthcare and health IT organizations, including several Fortune 500 companies. Contact her at @ziegerhealth on Twitter or visit her site at Zieger Healthcare.

A new report by KLAS has designated Epic, athenahealth and Greenway as the top three EMR vendors among mid-sized healthcare practices.  The report, which also identified unpopular EMRs in the space, drew its conclusions based on analysis of ability, workflow and integration capabilities, according to iHealthBeat.

To do the study, KLAS interviewed clinicians and IT personnel at practices with 11 to 75 doctors.

Researchers named the top three mid-sized EMR vendors as Epic Systems, which scored a 85.3 points out of 100; athenahealth, which scored 83.5 points; and Greenway, which scored 81.3 points.

Each of the top three vendors distinguished themselves in unique ways.  For example, researchers found that practices liked Epic’s consistent delivery in large hospital-based practices, athenahealth’s “nimble deployment” and system updates, and Greenway’s exceptional service to smaller, independent practices.

Meanwhile, KLAS noted that Allscripts, McKesson and Vitera had the highest percentage of dissatisfied customers, practices which felt stuck with their current EMR system but would not purchase it again.  Reasons for their dissatisfaction included upgrade issues, lack of support, and a perceived lack of vendor partnership, iHealthBeat said.

When it comes down to it, it’s pretty clear when these practices need from their vendors, and a feeling of partnership and mutual support seems to top the list of matter which researchers is doing the study.  But it’s clear that these characteristics can be pretty hard to come by, even from companies you’d think had plenty of resources to deliver a sense of support and availability to their customers.  Allscripts, McKesson and Vitera (although it is Greenway now) had better get their act together quickly, as mid-sized medical practices are a major market, even if they don’t spend quite as much as hospitals.

McKesson, Meditech Chosen As EHR Test Systems for Meaningful Use

Posted on January 23, 2014 I Written By

Anne Zieger is veteran healthcare consultant and analyst with 20 years of industry experience. Zieger formerly served as editor-in-chief of FierceHealthcare.com and her commentaries have appeared in dozens of international business publications, including Forbes, Business Week and Information Week. She has also contributed content to hundreds of healthcare and health IT organizations, including several Fortune 500 companies. Contact her at @ziegerhealth on Twitter or visit her site at Zieger Healthcare.

Here’s an interesting situation which is just popped up on my radar screen.  CMS and the ONC have chosen the first two vendors to serve as designated test EHR systems, and they’ve gone with McKesson and Meditech.

These test vendors are there to help eligible providers meet the requirements of Meaningful Use Stage 2.  To meet MU Stage 2 requirements, providers must successfully conduct at least one exchange test with a CMS-designated test EMR. (The providers can also meet the requirements by performing one electronic exchange of a summary of care document with a recipient using a different EMR technology.)

What intrigued me about this is that CMS and ONC are starting out with only two vendors for use as test EMR providers.  Given the diversity in the marketplace, you’d think that CMS would want to have fuller stock of vendors lined up before it went forward announcing its plans.

If I were an eligible provider going this route, I’d want to have the choice of a wider range test EMRs. Given how little real interoperability there is between EMRs, I’d like to know that I had a fallback position if my original tests didn’t work out.  After all, nothing I’ve read here suggests that EPs won’t have a chance to try again if the initial testing doesn’t go through, and if I were a provider, it’d be good to know that I could take the shot with other test EMRs. But I could be wrong, and that could have an effect on whether vendors see this as a win.

Let’s see if other substantial EMR vendors take up the ONC’s call to serve as test EMR participants.  It will be interesting to see whether vendors see participation as a credibility-raiser or a chance to get pantsed publicly if interoperating with their systems is a pain.

CommonWell Announces Sites For Interoperability Rollout

Posted on December 13, 2013 I Written By

Anne Zieger is veteran healthcare consultant and analyst with 20 years of industry experience. Zieger formerly served as editor-in-chief of FierceHealthcare.com and her commentaries have appeared in dozens of international business publications, including Forbes, Business Week and Information Week. She has also contributed content to hundreds of healthcare and health IT organizations, including several Fortune 500 companies. Contact her at @ziegerhealth on Twitter or visit her site at Zieger Healthcare.

Nine months after announcing their plan to increase interoperability between health IT data sources, the CommonWell Health Alliance has disclosed the locations where it will first offer interoperability services.

CommonWell, whose members now include health IT vendors Allscripts, athenahealth, Cerner, CPSI, Greenway, McKesson, RelayHealth and Sunquest, launched to some skepticism — and a bit of behind-the-hand smirks because Epic Systems wasn’t included — but certainly had the industry’s attention.  And today, the vendors do seem to have critical mass, as the Alliance’s founding members represent 42 percent of the acute and 23 percent of the ambulatory EMR market, according to research firms SK&A and KLAS.

Now, the rubber meets the road, with the Alliance sharing a list of locations where it will first roll out services. It’s connecting providers in Chicago, Elkin and Henderson, North Carolina and Columbia, South Carolina. Interoperability services will be launched in these markets sometime at the beginning of 2014.

To make interoperability possible, Alliance members, RelayHealth and participating provider sites will be using a patient-centric identity and matching approach.

The initial participating providers include Lake Shore Obstetrics & Gynecology (Chicago, IL), Hugh Chatham Memorial Hospital (Elkin, NC), Maria Parham Medical Center (Henderson, NC), Midlands Orthopaedics (Columbia, SC), and Palmetto Health (Columbia, SC).

The participating providers will do the administrative footwork to make sure the data exchange can happen. They will enroll patients into the service and manage patient consents needed to share data. They’ll also identify whether other providers have data for a patient enrolled in the network and transmit data to another provider that has consent to view that patient’s data.

Meanwhile, the Alliance members will be providing key technical services that allow providers to do the collaboration electronically, said Bob Robke, vice president of Cerner Network and a member of the Alliance’s board of directors.  CommonWell offers providers not only identity services, but a patient’s identity is established, the ability to share CCDs with other providers by querying them. (In case anyone wonders about how the service will maintain privacy, Robke notes that all clinical information sharing is peer to peer  — and that the CommonWell services don’t keep any kind of clinical data repository.)

The key to all of this is that providers will be able to share this information without having to be on a common HIE, much less be using the same EMR — though in Columbia, SC, the Alliance will be “enhancing” the capabilities of the existing local HIE by bringing acute care facility Palmetto Health, Midlands Orthopaedics and Capital City OB/GYN ambulatory practices into the mix.

It will certainly be interesting to see how well the CommonWell approach works, particularly when it’s an overlay to HIEs. Let’s see if the Alliance actually adds something different and helpful to the mix.

Big EMR Vendors Agree To Interoperability Scheme

Posted on March 6, 2013 I Written By

Anne Zieger is veteran healthcare consultant and analyst with 20 years of industry experience. Zieger formerly served as editor-in-chief of FierceHealthcare.com and her commentaries have appeared in dozens of international business publications, including Forbes, Business Week and Information Week. She has also contributed content to hundreds of healthcare and health IT organizations, including several Fortune 500 companies. Contact her at @ziegerhealth on Twitter or visit her site at Zieger Healthcare.

John’s Comment: See my coverage of the CommonWell announcement on EMR and HIPAA.

Could it be that real interoperability between vendors is on the way? Five big EMR vendors — including three hospital-oriented giants and two doctor-focused players — have come together during HIMSS to announce plans to create common standards for health data sharing, reports Forbes.

Cerner, McKesson, Allscripts, athenahealth and Greenway Medical Technologies have joined to create a new non-profit called the CommonWell Health Alliance. (As most wags have noted, Epic is conspicuously absent from the mix.)

The partners haven’t disclosed a lot of detail as to how they plan to achieve interoperability amongst themselves, but the scheme seems to rely on creating a unique national ID. “Without a national ID and the ability to create true data that can be safely and securely sent between individuals, we are going to introduce new systemic risk back into the system,” Neal Patterson, founder, chairman and chief executive of Cerner told Forbes.

Patterson, public citizen that he is, said that the CommonWell Alliance isn’t a commercial effort but “an obligation.”  That certainly sounds lovely, but with five hyper-competitive public companies forming up this effort, I’m skeptical to say the least. Besides, if it’s an obligation, why isn’t Epic so obligated?

John Halamka, Chief Information Officer of Beth Israel Deaconness Medical Center in Boston, has probably sniffed out more of partners’ true motivation. “They’re thinking of it as an enabler for new technologies,” Halamka suggests to Forbes, a move which can “raise the tide for all boats.”

Whether it raises any boats or not, creating interoperability links between these vendors certainly can’t hurt. After all, the more data sharing the better, particularly by major players with significant market share.

That being said, there’s still the matter of Epic being out of the picture, not to mention other major EMR players. How much of a practical difference the CommonWell Health Alliance can make is very much in question.

EMR Vendors Want Meaningful Use Stage 3 Delay

Posted on January 29, 2013 I Written By

Anne Zieger is veteran healthcare consultant and analyst with 20 years of industry experience. Zieger formerly served as editor-in-chief of FierceHealthcare.com and her commentaries have appeared in dozens of international business publications, including Forbes, Business Week and Information Week. She has also contributed content to hundreds of healthcare and health IT organizations, including several Fortune 500 companies. Contact her at @ziegerhealth on Twitter or visit her site at Zieger Healthcare.

A group of EMR vendors have joined the chorus of industry organizations asking that Meaningful Use Stage 3 deadlines be moved up to a later date.  The vendors also want to see the nature of Stage 3 requirements changed to put a greater emphasis on interoperabilityInformation Week reports.

The group, the HIMSS EHR Association (EHRA), represents 40 vendors pulled together by HIMSS.  Members include both enterprise and physician-oriented vendors, including athenahealth, Cerner, Epic, eClinicalWorks, Emdeon, Meditech, McKesson, Siemens GE Healthcare IT and Practice Fusion.

In comments submitted to HHS, the vendors argue that MU Stage 3 requirements should not kick in until three years after a provider reaches Stage 2, and start no earlier than 2017. But their larger request, and more significant one, is that they’d like to see Meaningful Use Stage 3’s focus changed:

“The EHRA strongly recommends that Stage 3 focus primarily on encouraging and assisting providers to take advantage of the substantial capabilities established in Stage 1 and especially Stage 2, rather than adding new meaningful use requirements and product certification criteria. In particular, we believe that any meaningful use and functionality changes should focus primarily on interoperability and building on accelerated momentum and more extensive use of Stage 2 capabilities and clinical quality measurement.”

So, we’ve finally got vendors like walled-garden-player Epic finding a reason to fight for interoperability. It took being clubbed by the development requirements of Stage 3, which seems to have EHRA members worried, but it happened nonetheless.

While there’s obviously self-interest in vendors asking not to strain their resources on new development, they still have a point which deserves considering.  Does it really make sense to push the development curve as far as Stage 3 requires before providers have gotten the chance to leverage what they’ve got?  Maybe not.

Now, the question is whether the vendors will put their code where their mouth is. Will the highly proprietary approach taken by Epic and some of its peers become passe?

Social Media Resources for Healthcare IT Job Seekers

Posted on March 28, 2012 I Written By

As Social Marketing Director at Billian, Jennifer Dennard is responsible for the continuing development and implementation of the company's social media strategies for Billian's HealthDATA and Porter Research. She is a regular contributor to a number of healthcare blogs and currently manages social marketing channels for the Health IT Leadership Summit and Technology Association of Georgia’s Health Society. You can find her on Twitter @JennDennard.

In my attempts to prepare for a panel discussion during last week’s TAG Health-sponsored HIT Job Fair, I corresponded with a number of you, dear readers, on how you and your colleagues have or are currently using social media in your job hunt. Thanks to everyone who shared their experiences, tips and tricks with me. I was able to relay some of it to the eager job seekers in the audience – many of whom were only vaguely aware of the potential social media can play in helping candidates: manage their personal brand and digital footprint; educate themselves on a particular niche as they transition from one industry into another; and of course, find job openings.

McKesson and Children's Healthcare of Atlanta were just a few of the employers at TAG Health's recent job fair.

The following is a list of resources that I didn’t have time to share during the job fair. Many of them come directly from the fingertips of EMRandEHR.com readers.

* Social Networking for Career Success – great book – no matter what industry you’re in – by Miriam Salpeter of Keppie Careers. You can follow her on Twitter and learn more at her website, KeppieCareers.com, which also includes a guide to Google+ in the books section.

* NWHIT.org – a website devoted to Health IT Workforce Development in the Northwestern States, part of the Community College Consortia to Educate Health IT Professionals Program. It includes some great advice blogs by Health IT Talent Specialist Yvette Herrera-Greer, as well as a session from Matthew Youngquist of Career Horizons on using LinkedIn as an effective tool for job seekers in the Health IT sector. You can also join the organization’s group on LinkedIn – just search for NW Healthcare IT Workforce.

* the @HIMSSJobMine Twitter account is a great national resource, as is the @TAG_Health account if you’re in Georgia.

* Twitter hashtags you may want to consider paying attention to include #HealthIT, #Jobs, or the name of the company, technology or position you’re interested in, such as #CIO, #Allscripts, #Epic, #EHR, etc.

* Pinterest – yep, you read that right. I’d say it’s a little too early to tell whether it will be a valuable resource for folks in healthcare IT, but the recent Forbes article I came across on the subject is worth a look, especially if you’re already a fan of the new social media sight. (Side Note: You can Find Healthcare Scene and EHR Screenshots on Pinterest also)

* CareerEnlightenment.com – a website devoted to helping people use social media to get jobs. Blogger Joshua Waldman is also the author of Job Searching with Social Media for Dummies.

Have additional resources and tips to add? Please share yours in the comments below.

EMR Job Seekers Get Their Big Break

Posted on January 11, 2012 I Written By

As Social Marketing Director at Billian, Jennifer Dennard is responsible for the continuing development and implementation of the company's social media strategies for Billian's HealthDATA and Porter Research. She is a regular contributor to a number of healthcare blogs and currently manages social marketing channels for the Health IT Leadership Summit and Technology Association of Georgia’s Health Society. You can find her on Twitter @JennDennard.

I’m not a big fan of reality shows, especially those that involve contestants singing, telling jokes, dancing, or anything else that could potentially result in public humiliation. I’m in the minority, of course, as this style of television programming shows no sign of abating anytime soon. It’s a worldwide epidemic, in my opinion.

I am a fan of creative marketing – applying concepts traditionally associated with one particular medium (like television) to something entirely different (like healthcare). Needless to say, the Big Break job recruitment program – you could also call them auditions – intrigued me.

In a nutshell, pre-screened candidates take part in a one-day audition process put on by recruitment firm Intellect Resources and participating hospitals. Candidates then compete to become trainers and instruct staff on the use of the sponsoring hospital’s electronic medical record system or related healthcare IT system.

Seems like a slam-dunk concept, in my opinion. Those who are unemployed get a job within their community, and also get a taste of what that popular 15 minutes of fame is like. Did I mention that candidates go through video interviews and public presentations during the daylong process?

I recently chatted with Tiffany Crenshaw, President and CEO of sponsoring organization Intellect Resources, about how the program came about and the impact it has had on its participants’ lives (and go-lives).

How did the Big Break come about?
Tiffany Crenshaw: The Big Break spawned out of a project we were working on at Mt. Sinai Hospital last year. Last fall, they were getting ready for their Epic training and called me in a panic. They were expecting to get 90 to 100 trainers, and were going to use nurses, but realized at the last minute that wasn’t a viable idea. So they called us and said, “We have to do something now – we have no budget and we have no time. And we want to do some sort of done-in-a-day type audition. What can you do?”

So we said this is right up our alley. We created a really cool event – it was at the big Marriott Marquis in Times Square. We had around 500 contestants, and they all went through a timed audition process – stressful for them, but it was still fun.

They had to go through seed interviews and get in front of cameras. They had to get in front of a boardroom of judges and do presentations. At the end of the day, we ended up with 100 trainers that worked at Mt. Sinai to help roll out the hospital’s Epic training and go-live.

So that’s really the model of Big Break. We created it as a solution for Mt. Sinai, and now other folks are getting the word about it. Ochsner Health System is our next one. We’ve got the Big Break event for them in just a couple of weeks (January 21).

Did they reach out to you?
A consultant and dear friend of mine that was actually helping them with their system selection and project planning for their Epic implementation recommended this business model, and brought us in as the vendor to run this product for them. So yes, they did reach out to us, but it was really a consultant that made it happen.

Are you an all-Epic recruiting firm?
At the moment, that’s just about all we’re doing. Through the years, we’ve worked with many other products – with McKesson, Cerner, Siemens. The demand right now is Epic, so by default we’re doing all Epic. That’s just where the demand is, and so that’s where we’re spending our time.

How have you seen this type of program impact sponsoring hospitals and surrounding communities?
We think it’s a business model that works very well for hospitals. It’s a very low-cost way to get good resources. It’s also a good marketing opportunity for them to promote the fact they’re installing an electronic health record to the benefit of their patients, and it’s a great way for them to reinvest in their own community.

At Ochsner, the idea is that this is really for the New Orleans community. They don’t like to hire outside consultants. They really want to empower and revitalize their own community.

Many of the folks that we worked with at Mt. Sinai have gone on to work at other places. Big Break was really their footprint in the door. The end result is that the consultants that come through with really good experiences.  Over 50 percent of them are now working in the industry. Mt. Sinai actually hired four full-time employees. There was a big project up in Rochester, N.Y., that a lot of the people went to after that first project. We redeployed probably 20 of them on several go-lives.

Is there an opportunity for this to work in other cities?
At our very first meeting with Ochsner’s project executive, we talked about the fact that there are several area hospitals in and around New Orleans gearing up for Epic implementations. Our original thought was, let’s do this together, but the go-live timeframes didn’t work.

It would make perfect sense if there were multiple hospitals that could do the event together, do the credentialing together, and then take people from a generic credentialing and deploy them to the individual hospitals to learn the individual builds. I think it’s a model that could be a really good collaboration.

I think one of the neatest things about Big Break is that this industry is so thin on the amount of really good resources that are out there. It’s a great way to breed new talent

Epic, Cerner Best For ACOs? Say What?

Posted on September 29, 2011 I Written By

Katherine Rourke is a healthcare journalist who has written about the industry for 30 years. Her work has appeared in all of the leading healthcare industry publications, and she's served as editor in chief of several healthcare B2B sites.

I don’t know about you, but I’m not exactly sure what an Accountable Care Organization is. In fact, I’m betting nobody is — there’s a bunch of harrumphing and throat clearing out there, but I haven’t seen any crystal-clear descriptions out there.  Shall we say that ACOs are more honored in the breach than in the observance and leave it at that?

Now, we come to the puzzling part of this piece. If nobody’s managed to define an ACO clearly, how can any particular EMR be a better ACO tool than another?  We’ll have to ask KLAS about this one, since they’re the ones that discovered this “fact.”

Today, KLAS announced that it had interviewed 197 providers at 187 organizations to see how ACOs are forming up. A third of the respondents said that they were pursuing a formal Medicare ACO designation, and the majority were felt ACOs were the future, KLAS reported.

Sure, considering that ACOs are just risk-taking organizations with a capitated feel, some people already have a sense of what to expect. But throw an EMR into the mix and we’re in new territory — hopefully good territory, but new nonetheless.

So, tell me how providers know that Epic and Cerner are the most ACO-ready? Apparently, respondents believe that Cerner already has many of the IT pieces needed to run ACOs; moreover, they say Cerner is working closely with providers interested in the ACO model.

Survey takers also gave a nod to Epic, which they see as being close to ready (though behind in analyics and ability to share data with non-Epic users).

Wait a minute — let me get this straight.  Respondents know Cerner has the right pieces, even though the ACO doesn’t exist yet?  They like Epic, even though it doesn’t share data outside of its walled garden?  KLAS is kidding, right?

At this point, I’ll be kind and say that Epic and Cerner users are a bit brainwashed, which I too might be if I’d spent the kind of money those folks have on an EMR.

But the voice in my suggests that KLAS might have had its finger on the scales just a little bit. I will not publicly state that Allscripts, CPSI, GE Healthcare, McKesson, MEDITECH, QuadraMed and Siemens scored worse because they didn’t pay for play…but something sure isn’t right here.

 

 

 

A Good Question: What Would Epic Be Worth, And Does It Matter?

Posted on March 19, 2011 I Written By

Katherine Rourke is a healthcare journalist who has written about the industry for 30 years. Her work has appeared in all of the leading healthcare industry publications, and she's served as editor in chief of several healthcare B2B sites.

Few would argue that Epic is one of the two or three most visible enterprise EMR vendors on the market today. There’s little doubt that these days, Epic is shortlisted when hospitals plan an EMR rollout, alongside of giants like GE and Cerner.

It’s hard to imagine that Epic isn’t in a sweet financial position, practically stuffing warehouses full of the revenue they’re generating in this pivotal period of HIT history. (For a sense of the scale involved, bear in mind that Kaiser Permanente’s reportedly $4 billion to $6 billion EMR rollout was an Epic installation.)

That being said, we really don’t know. Why? Well, while Cerner and GE and McKesson are public companies, Epic remains privately held. Looked at another way, health systems that sink half a billion dollars over five years to implement Epic know far less about its financial situation than they would about Cerner’s.

So, maybe I’m wandering out on a limb here, but if I were a big health system, wouldn’t it be a little bit concerning not to know some details on how robust the company’s financial picture is? Does it really make sense, despite its strong reputation and impressive customer list, to spend a staggering sum on Epic without some third-party analysis of its prospects?

After all, when you spend the kind of money health systems are spending, that vendor becomes an incredibly important partner. But if the vendor’s not open to Wall Street scrutiny , it might get away with fibbing about its ability to deliver.

Mind you, I’m not saying that health systems that go with Epic — or any other privately-held vendor — are behaving irresponsibly. It’s just that in this climate, more information can’t hurt.

P.S.: I began thinking about this when I saw a question (posted on Quora.com) asking what Epic would be worth if it went public. Could the poster know something we don’t?